What OS X Could Learn From Windows
Okay.
Hard hat? Check.
Flak jacket? Check.
Flame proof vest? Check.
White flag? Check.
Deep breath? Check.
Windows has some features OS X could do with.
There, I said it. Nice and quick and up front. No beating around the bush. So what now? Duck!!!
Is it safe to come out yet? I’ve been burnt before daring to suggest this. But here I am again, sucker for punishment.
1) Compatible control keys. Switching between Mac and Windows this drives me nuts. I have to consciously think “command-C or control-C?” It shouldn’t have to be that way. And if you’re running RDC or VPC and copying and pasting between OS X and Windows!! Sheesh!
The problem isn’t the labeling, it’s the location of the keys used. I had to use a Windows PC today and I kept pressing Alt-C to copy. This is why it’s a problem. If it was simply a matter of labeling, no worries, mate. Apple - and the zealotry - need to concede that this battle is lost.
Implementing this would rock many people’s boats, so if Apple did make this change it’d have some serious domino affect on other keystrokes and applications that use them, but maybe it could be done with the switch to Intel, just to ease the pain slightly.
2) Save button on toolbars. I don’t think any of the Apple software ever gives you the option to include a Save button. Print button yes, Save button no. A little test - raise your hand if you save your work more often than you print it? Ah, so I’m not alone. Good. You can put your hands down. Thank you.
3) A multi button mouse. And you thought I’d say two. Why stop at two? Especially with things like Exposé, Dashboard and Spotlight. They’re just crying out for single click activation from a mouse. Ok. So this isn’t a Windows feature per sé, but still is needed.
4) Only show relevant file types in open and save dialogs. For those who like seeing every file that’s every existed in their Documents folder, give them a checkbox to show all files. But personally, if I am opening a Pages file, I don’t want to see all my iMovie, Excel, iDVD etc files. And OS X already knows which are which because non-related ones are greyed out.
5) Sort folders to top of directory listings I know that we don’t go folder mining as much since we got Spotlight, so I won’t labor on about this one.
6) More context sensitive help. I notice since I first raised this two years ago, more of it has crept into OS X. So I guess at least I can’t be flamed for this one!
Now why is it that I can list all the features I want Leopard to have and as long as none of them are from Windows, its cool? But dare suggest OS X needs a feature already in Windows and the world comes down on you. We can admit that OS X is not perfect, but not that Windows is better in some ways.
But Apple have admitted it in the past. Here’s just a couple of things I’ve seen Windows do that Apple has added:
- Command-tab switching
- Existing files selectable in Save dialog
Last week I suggested changes to the iPod and more people than not, disagreed. And I reckon this week it’ll be a lot worse. But if I added to this list “Change to Intel CPU’s"… two months ago I would have been burned at the stake. Now it seems we all think that change is logical. So before you get the flame thrower out remember, we know Apple make changes, they borrow from Windows and borrow from their 3rd party developers.
Also, I know I’m going to get flamed for this being a “tired old argument that has been done to death”. Sorry if you feel that way. just pretend I didn’t say these features already existed in Windows and that they are new and revolutionary. If we stop asking, Apple may think we don’t want them anymore. Microsoft copied so much from Mac OS, why can’t Apple do a little copying back?
And if you can take the heat, what would you like to see Apple borrow from Windows?
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Nihon, to enable tab focus between all controls, open System Preferences, choose “Keyboard and Mouse”, click on the “Keyboard” tab and select “All controls” under “Full keyboard access:” This works on Cocoa applications, including Safari dialogs and popup buttons in forms. The space bar activates the button with focus, the default button (pulsing blue) is activated by the enter key. Cancel is activated by the esc key.
Apple ships with a two button mouse because OS X does not require a second button to perform basic operations. Try creating a folder directly your desktop without a second mouse button in Windows (you can’t, not without opening an explorer window first). And why does the “New” pop-up menu in Windows have a submenu with 5-10 items when the only one most people use is “Folder”?
If you’re a power user or running software that requires two or more buttons, such as a 3D modeling program, you’re likely to replace the stock mouse with a better model anyway.
I want both a delete and a backspace button on my mac. I use both all the time on my Windows box at work.
I want to be able to tab between options in dialog boxes (save, cancel, etc,) with the arrow keys.
Ha! That was great Beeblebrox.
Listen my biggest problem with this whole thing is like so many approaches that Apple takes some Mac zealots believe anything outside of the Jobs proscribed method of computing is “confusing” or “complicated”, that is of course until Steve reverses course and decides that the new way IS the best way then suddenly every Mac zealot can’t stop talking about how smart the move is*.
* For proof of this phenomenon see the Intel Switch. Now IBM is the bad guy and Intel is the knight in shining white armor sent to rescue us. WTF? How did that happen?
See but there is a difference between a Mac zealot and a Mac user. This article, in my opinion, was written from the perspective of a Mac user. Someone who loves the platform, would never consider going back to the crap known as Windows, yet is not beyond seeing that there could be things done better. The Mac zealot, is unwilling or incapable of seeing that this is a possibility and will use any and all examples, excuses, theories to prove this to be the case.
A two-button mouse makes sense. You love the idea of the iPod being a one-handed device (that is you can perform just about every operation with a single hand) yet you feel like mouse use is better complimented by using it in conjunction with a keyboard. Not only that but you think this is easier? Easier than flicking the middle finger of your mouse using hand?
Now you can give me examples of extreme cases, as some of you have, where the person has no idea what they are doing and can’t even grasp the basic functions of a single button mouse. Listen, I know these people exist, but if it is that bad then I am going to go out on a limb here and say I can guarantee you that the mouse isn’t the only thing that has them confused. If you can’t teach a person to left click instead of right click there are going to be quite a few parts about computing they find quite baffling. That doesn’t mean that the habits of this subset of people should dictate your overall approach to the rest of your user base.
What if I said I know lots of older people who use Macs. And they can’t see that well in their old age. So to compensate we are going to turn on the Accessibility features of the screen and keep the display on constant zoom. And because this is “easier” and less confusing we are going to disable the option to change your screen back to standard resolution specs natively. But if you are “one of those” who insist on this you can buy a third party software solution to allow you to change it. Listen we are just trying to make it easier for the “average” user. Apple considers old people are our average users, deal with it. How would you like that?
And while I am all for trying to get these people on a Mac and working at least a minimal proficiency level you’ll have to excuse me if I am not thrilled with the idea that Apple’s product decision are based on them. You don’t base a design on the least common denominator because you are going to frustrate more users than not.
I would prefer Apple focused on that middle ground user. Not a power user, no expert, but someone who can surf, check their email, listen to some music, own an iPod, can’t be bothered with worrying about viruses and spyware but can handle the very clear differences between a left click and a right click and move on with their lives. Maybe they even know a keyboard shortcut or two.
Using someone who barely understand the concept of a mouse and it’s functionality as a reason why not to include a two button mouse is a bit extreme.
We might as well find everyone who can’t grasp the idea of a Application folder and Finder and do away with the whole computer all together and give everyone a pencil and paper. Sound extreme?
Well if we are going to use the most extreme examples to argue against something like a mouse than what’s to stop someone from doing so with every other aspect of the computer.
The two-button mouse, for an average computer user, is NOT confusing. Over 90% of the computing public (ya know, Windows users) manages to do it everyday. By your own admission these are the “unwashed masses”. Why can they handle it but enlightened Mac users cannot?
Come on, it’s a two button mouse. It would make plenty of existing, new, and potential users happy. Would it kill you guys to admit that it might just be the best course of action?
Geez.
AngryHamster,
great comment about the difference between Mac Zealots and Mac Users. I’ve always hoped that this site is a forum for Mac Users. Sure, I love the platform as much as anyone else out there. But I’m also not blind to the fact that there are faults, and that Microsoft and other companies do some pretty smart stuff.
Do I own a Windows box at home? Hell no! But do I think everything Apple does is perfect? Well....hell no!
An as for the keyboard layout proposition, which has been lost in the shuffle of this discussion somewhat, I am not saying that it should necessarily be Apple that makes the change. It doesn’t need to be Mac users who have to adjust their muscle memory to accommodate new key positions.
In fact I agree that the command key is in a more comfortable position on a Mac layout than the Windows control key. All I said earlier is I agreed with Chris that it would be nice if the layout was standard across both platforms so as to make the required dual computing many of us have to do (Mac at home, Windows at work) a bit easier to deal with.
And I suggested that in the interest of promoting Window users to switch maybe it should be the Mac that rearranges their keys.
Now I don’t blame Mac users for not wanting to relocate the command key and being resistant to being the ones having to make the concession. But I wholeheartedly agree that it would be nice if there was a standard layout and we all know that the idiots running the show at Microsoft will never volunteer to make the change. So I just thought we would be the “bigger” installed user base and take one for the team.
We all know this won’t happen, there will be no standard, and dual users as well as switchers, will continue to have to learn and use two layouts when going about their daily computing.
But wouldn’t the world be a nice place if this wasn’t the case? That and a solution to world hunger is all I want for Christmas Santa.
* For proof of this phenomenon see the Intel Switch. Now IBM is the bad guy and Intel is the knight in shining white armor sent to rescue us. WTF? How did that happen?
I’ll bet several people are still smarting from the whiplash on that 180 degree turn around. “Never going to happen! PPC is the greatest and Intel sucks! Clock speed myth! Clockspeed...what...it’s true...they’re going to do it?
[14 miliseconds elapse]
Well, I’ve had some time to think about it and I think this is the smartest move they could make!”
And no doubt the exact same would happen if and when Apple ever starts shipping with a two-button mouse.
Try creating a folder directly your desktop without a second mouse button in Windows (you can’t, not without opening an explorer window first).
Fortunately, PCs ship with a multi-button mouse, so using the right button to create a folder on the desktop is very simple. Right-
click-->new-->folder. On the Mac, it’s File-->New Folder or Shift-Apple N. I don’t see much difference there.
Now, if you really want to see a difference, try sharing that new folder with your network on the Mac vs the PC.
I agree Hadley. The fact is on many Mac focused websites Mac zealots are harder on those who have an opinion that differs from the Apple company line than Windows trolls are on Mac users in general. It is like ferocious animals eating their young. Zealots are long time users, deeply dedicated to the platform, who will think nothing of tearing apart recent switchers or even less fanatical Mac users if they voice their concerns or suggestions about the platform. These are the people who will tell you why something will NEVER happen in the Apple world, and when it does will explain why it HAD to happen for Apple to grow and compete. The recent Intel switch and the upcoming Video iPod being two examples of this. “Steve said this” and “Steve said that”, what gets me is the people who worship Steve the most seem to get him the least. He says what he has to say at the time to protect the thinking of the Apple company.
For a great example of this check out todays Joy of Tech comic
http://joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/709.html
If he announced a year ago that the video iPod was the natural progression in the world of portable media Mac zealots would be going crazy spec’ing out possible video iPods and explaining how someone needs to do it and who better than Apple. But because Steve said video on a portable level does not work Zealots will bash anyone who suggests otherwise. A good example of this is how many times I read “but who wants to watch video on a 2” iPod screen”. What? It’s like they are so locked into the Apple way that the possibility that Apple could build a bigger and higher clarity screen into the iPod (along the lines of the PSP screen) is beyond them, it is completely discounted. It’s crazy. The 2” screen is why video won’t happen? If you have ever thought this yourself you need to seriously think outside of the white Apple box for a second, because I will tell you right now that’s exactly what the engineers in Cupertino are doing. How else do you think they stay on the cutting edge. Do what’s next expected, make it great, make it Apple. A very simple mantra. Thank god most Zealots don’t work at Apple or else they would be waiting for Steve to allow them to think. I mean everyone knows the “insanely great” great story of how the Mac came to be right? It had nothing to do with sticking to the company line. If it did you would be waiting for Lisa X, and who knows what that would look like.
Anyway, point is there are 16 million OSX users. And it is not 16 million person cult. There are zealots, enthusiasts and users.
I like to think Apple Matters is written by Apple enthusiasts who write from the perspective of an Apple user. The Zealots are the ones who do the flaming and the poo pooing but it is the regular user out there that understands no matter how good something may be there is always a way for it to be better. And than god for that or else we would still be on OS 9.
That’s what this article is about.
Computing on a whole would be better if Windows users realized they can learn a thing or two (or 9 million) from Apple users and the same is true of Mac users who could learn a thing or two (at most 10) from Windows users.
Relax, we still have the best OS on the planet. But there us no harm in making it better.
Beeblebrox:
This isn’t about whether a one-button mouse is *better* than a multi-button mouse… It’s about whether it is EASIER. There is a difference. I use a multi-button mouse, but I’m not the average user. Don’t you think Apple has done about a million usability focus groups on this very subject? Don’t make up retarded hypothetical conversations to try to support your argument. You’re just belittling yourself.
I’m surprised you describe Windows-style file sharing as good… Easy, yes… but not necessarily good. You fail to mention the security problems with that kind of folder sharing.
On the Mac, you don’t need Sharepoints. You just need to go into the Control Panel -> Sharing and enable the Windows or Apple protocol file sharing. Shared files are put in your “Public” folder. Want to share a folder not in your public folder? Well, there are ways a “power user” can do that without resorting to buying a 3rd party app (symlinks, setting up samba shares via command line), but the reason Apple chose to allow only a single folder to share is security, plain and simple.
Don’t be a fool - OS X has servers for AFP, SMB, HTTP, FTP *and* SSH built into the OS for connectivity WITHOUT 3rd party applications. Your example is a troll and does nothing to add to the useful debate in this forum.
I don’t need Sharepoints to share other folders on my drive. I use Samba with is included in the OS. Apple chose security over ease in this situation, and I, for one, don’t disagree. The average user needs the extra security. Power users, like myself, have the flexibility of the command line to utilize more advanced file shareing. It may be less easy, but the added security is also the reason my machine hasn’t been compromised sitting on an open connection to the Internet… or Mom’s or Dad’s or Grandma’s machine for the matter. I’ll take a more secure machine over a DDoS/spam robot any day.
Don’t you think Apple has done about a million usability focus groups on this very subject?
No I don’t. I think Apple (read: Jobs) has decided that they are going to stick with the one-button mouse and that’s that.
This assertion that the “average user” is confused by a right button is utterly asinine. I’m sorry, but a blind grandmother using her feet to operate a mouse is not the “average user.” The fact is that the “average user” is a PC user and uses a two-button mouse every day.
Second, the fanatics are defending it ONLY because it’s Apple and we all know it. If it were the other way around and PCs shipped with a one-button mouse while Apples shipped with a two button mouse, then Mac fanatics would be criticizing PCs for having half as many mouse buttons and therefore less funcationality.
Of all the dumbass things Mac fanatics defend, the one-button mouse is the dumbass-est.
<style file sharing as good…</i>
I’m sure describing anything Windows-style as “good” shocks the hell out of you. It definitely angers you and prompts the word “troll” to regurgitate from your keyboard.
But for those of us outside of the reality distortion field, this is one of a things I like better in XP than OSX. There aren’t that many, to be sure, but there are some and they are legitimate.
Easy, yes… but not necessarily good. You fail to mention the security problems with that kind of folder sharing.
Easy AND good in XP. Ridiculously difficult in OSX. I have a private network with five workstations. It’s VITAL that I be able to share my folders WITHOUT having to put them in public folder. I need them where I need them and I’m not going to move my folders because Apple thinks I’m too stupid to take care of my system.
Second of all…
Well, there are ways a “power user” can do that without resorting to buying a 3rd party app (symlinks, setting up samba shares via command line)
Are you kidding me? This is exactly the kind of bullshit I’m talking about (in fact, you play my MAC FANATIC role from my previous post to a tee).
I need functionality that OSX either doesn’t have or makes much, much more difficult than XP. Period. And I’m tired of the Mac fanatics pulling the “average user” out of one of their butts while pulling the “power user” out of the other just to defend Apple at any cost.
I don’t care about the average user. I don’t care about the power user. I care about what I myself can do with MY computers for MY purposes.
Sharing folders in OSX is harder and requires a 3rd party plug-in to do what XP can do with a couple of mouse-clicks. The Apple mouse sucks and only has one-button.
Also, why does the Mac keyboard have TWO delete keys that both perform different things. That’s a minor gripe of course but it’s still a gripe.
Hey, everyone, I’ve got a great idea! Since helping people “switch” and increasing the similarity between Windows and the Mac appears to be as (or more) important than having a quality computing environment - why doesn’t Apple make Macs with Intel CPUs that will boot into Windows?
Oops. I guess I’m a few weeks late, huh?
All kidding aside, these are (for the most part) some terrible ideas.
“Compatible Control Keys” - I agree. It’ll be a Great Day for Computing when Microsoft finally admits they screwed the pooch and changes Windows to use the alt key to issue commands. Oh wait...you want Mac users to have to contort their hands into unnatural shapes to use the control key instead of using the command key that is conveniently located right next to the space bar so you can hit it by slightly bending your thumb? You must be out of your freakin’ mind. Is your brain really so feeble that you hit the wrong modifier key on Windows more than once or twice a day?
“Save Button on Toolbars” - How about we get rid of toolbars altogether (NOT palettes, there’s a difference). I hate those damn things. All they do is waste screen real estate. And, unless the toolbar icons are *very* unambiguous, they are productivity killers. Move the cursor to the “mystery icon” on the toolbar....wait for tooltip to appear...say “oops, that’s not what I’m looking for,” and go on to next icon, etc. Why mess with toolbars when every command is waiting for you inside the menus on the menu bar? Oh, that’s right...you can’t count on that in Windows apps. My guess is that toolbars appeared because there is little to no consistency between menus and commands in Windows apps. You can’t count on the keyboard shortcuts being the same between apps, you can’t count on similar commands being listed under similar menus between apps....so every loser Windows developer just started putting these damn toolbars everywhere to help their poor users ACTUALLY FIND WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR. If we forget, for a second, that “Save” in every single Mac app I’ve ever seen is command-S, and you insist on using the mouse instead of the keyboard to save your work from time to time, is it really much faster OR easier to drag the cursor to the toolbar rather than the File menu? Not really, IMHO.
“Multi-Button Mouse” - I think that Apple SHOULD sell a well-designed multi-button mouse (both wired and wireless models) as an optional add-on when purchasing a Mac. Call it “Apple Mouse Extreme” or something, and when you’re shopping at the online Apple Store, you can select “Mouse Extreme (add $29)”. But the standard mouse that comes with Macs should remain one-button until the end of time. I am certainly smart enough to know how to use a multi-button mouse. I use one on my work PC all day long, and I have used multi-button trackballs on my Mac in the past when I have been forced to work in an area with a very small amount of “mouse-able desk space”. IMHO, the current one-button Apple Bluetooth Mouse would be the best mouse ever invented in the history of the universe if only it were a wee bit lighter. The problem with multi-button mice is the way you have to hold your fingers when using the mouse. When holding the mouse with your hand (or at least this is how *my* hand works) in a relaxed configuration, your index finger ends up right on top of the scroll wheel, with your middle finger on the right button. Which is not very useful most of the time. So instead, you have to hold your fingers apart like a snake’s forked tongue to put your index finger on the left button and your middle finger on the right button. This produces a noticeable tension throughout your forearmarm (or at least MY arm), which CAN’T be very ergonomic. When I went back to using a one-button mouse on my Mac, I can’t say that I found it particularly inconvenient or difficult to ctrl-click instead of right click. Then again, I might just be crazy, because I will go on the record as stating that I really liked the old Hockey Puck Mouse. Really! Most people just didn’t understand that you weren’t supposed to move your whole hand around on it...you were supposed to lightly grip it with your thumb and ring finger and just kind of flick it around with your fingertips.
“Only show relevant file types in open and save dialogs.” - This is one of the most aggravating, nonsensical things about Windows. When I am looking in a folder, I want to see everything that is in there! The Mac way of greying-out the names of incompatible files is perfect, and is consistent with the way menus work. Files and/or commands that *exist*, but are not available at the moment (for whatever reason), are grey and “un-clickable”. The Windows Way never fails to freak me out by tricking me into thinking some of my files have magically disappeared or been deleted. “Holy Schlitz! Why are there only 15 files in this folder when there should be 100??? OH NO!!!!”. Oh no is right...I’m stuck on Windows *again*. This is a typical Windows problem. Rather than being designed for ease of use, it goes overboard trying to think *for* me by HIDING MY DAMN FILES. Wrong Answer.
“Sort folders to top of directory listings” - Anyone who suggests this should be run over several times by a Hummer stretch limousine and then slowly fed into a large wood chipper
. I can’t even begin to describe how INFURIATING that behaviour is on Windows. On my work PC, I have several folders with different types of documents and folders inside them, all titled by street address (123 Main, 256 Broadway, etc.). So, I open my photo folder in seach of my picture of 256 Broadway, type in 256 and I see folders titled “255 Jackson” and “256 Avenue A” but no “256 Broadway”. Hmm...I *thought* I had a photo of 256 Broadway...OH! That’s right...even though I specifically told Windows to sort by NAME, since I only have one photo of 256 Broadway, it’s not in a folder, so Windows decided it would really “help me out” by moving all of my single photo files UNDERNEATH all of my multiple-photo-bearing folders. And this is useful HOW? Sort By Name means SORT BY NAME, *not* “split into groups and then sort each group individually by name.” Once again...Please, Windows, DON’T attempt to think FOR me. I’m smarter than you. Really. I know what I want, and I TOLD you what I want. Don’t second-guess me.
“More context sensitive help” - OK, this one I agree with...except for the fact that us Mac people don’t really encourage much right-clicking and the whole contextual menu thing.
BTW, I do kinda like the way Windows lets you view photos from “the Finder”...what is that called again? “Filmstrip” view or something? That’s pretty neat and is IMHO more convenient than using Column View in the Finder.
Also, I may be wrong, but someone was asking about shortcuts/favorites from Open/Save dialogs. I’m stuck on the work PC right now, so I may not remember correctly, but can’t you drag files and folders out of the Open/Save dialog and put aliases to them in the Sidebar for safe-keeping and easy access?
Image thumbnails/previews have been available in Finder windows in Icon view mode since Mac OS X 10.3, folks:
1. Open any folder with images in it.
2. Select View > as Icons.
3. Select View > Show View Options.
4. Check “Show icon preview”.
Done deal.
This works at any icon size. Enjoy.
I agree Windows’ filmstrip for viewing a folder of images is handy.
For those Mac users with Tiger you can now see a slideshow of images right in the finder. Select all the images you want to see, then [your choice: click Action button, right-click, control-click] and select Slideshow. Nice little preview with back/forward, play/pause, and a handy Expose style index sheet. Not quite the same but handy nonetheless.
Every other suggestion in the article is terrible.
“Apple - and the zealotry - need to concede that this battle is lost.”
Wrong answer and it has nothing to do with “zealotry.” It is physically easier to use one hand with the command key than it is to use the control key--unless you plan to use both hands which sort of defeats the purpose of shortcut keys like this. Your fingers have to stretch too far for the control key. Try it. Which is easier? Control+G or Command+G. Try H. Logically, a shortcut key should work quickly and efficiently with one hand and using the meta key furthest from the letter keys is classic Microsoft bad design. I don’t buy this point and the Mac did not lose, insulting comments notwithstanding.
I did it, I read all of the comments before posting. How lame is that?
Anyway, I have to say that the Mac fanatics (I was one 10 years ago before switching to Windows) are a curious lot. The key location of the command key isn’t a big problem for me. The new feature of Tiger to let me switch keys is GREAT.
However, this doesn’t get rid of the difference between the platforms. I do a lot of development on Linux. I use X on my Mac to handle the work while staying on my Mac. The problem is I have to remember to use Control-C to copy text in an X window, and Command-V to paste it into a Mac window. Big pain. Then when I switch to my Windows XP box, I am back to using Control-C/Control-V. Only on the Mac am I required to make a translation.
I don’t want the few Mac fanatics who are too lazy/silly to switch. I’d just like an option that makes one key do the same thing in every window!!
The mouse is a non-issue. I use a Logitech cordless trackball with a KVM, so I have three buttons everywhere. Since I bought a Mac-Mini, I didn’t even have to throw away the one button mouse.