What OS X Could Learn From Windows
Okay.
Hard hat? Check.
Flak jacket? Check.
Flame proof vest? Check.
White flag? Check.
Deep breath? Check.
Windows has some features OS X could do with.
There, I said it. Nice and quick and up front. No beating around the bush. So what now? Duck!!!
Is it safe to come out yet? I’ve been burnt before daring to suggest this. But here I am again, sucker for punishment.
1) Compatible control keys. Switching between Mac and Windows this drives me nuts. I have to consciously think “command-C or control-C?” It shouldn’t have to be that way. And if you’re running RDC or VPC and copying and pasting between OS X and Windows!! Sheesh!
The problem isn’t the labeling, it’s the location of the keys used. I had to use a Windows PC today and I kept pressing Alt-C to copy. This is why it’s a problem. If it was simply a matter of labeling, no worries, mate. Apple - and the zealotry - need to concede that this battle is lost.
Implementing this would rock many people’s boats, so if Apple did make this change it’d have some serious domino affect on other keystrokes and applications that use them, but maybe it could be done with the switch to Intel, just to ease the pain slightly.
2) Save button on toolbars. I don’t think any of the Apple software ever gives you the option to include a Save button. Print button yes, Save button no. A little test - raise your hand if you save your work more often than you print it? Ah, so I’m not alone. Good. You can put your hands down. Thank you.
3) A multi button mouse. And you thought I’d say two. Why stop at two? Especially with things like Exposé, Dashboard and Spotlight. They’re just crying out for single click activation from a mouse. Ok. So this isn’t a Windows feature per sé, but still is needed.
4) Only show relevant file types in open and save dialogs. For those who like seeing every file that’s every existed in their Documents folder, give them a checkbox to show all files. But personally, if I am opening a Pages file, I don’t want to see all my iMovie, Excel, iDVD etc files. And OS X already knows which are which because non-related ones are greyed out.
5) Sort folders to top of directory listings I know that we don’t go folder mining as much since we got Spotlight, so I won’t labor on about this one.
6) More context sensitive help. I notice since I first raised this two years ago, more of it has crept into OS X. So I guess at least I can’t be flamed for this one!
Now why is it that I can list all the features I want Leopard to have and as long as none of them are from Windows, its cool? But dare suggest OS X needs a feature already in Windows and the world comes down on you. We can admit that OS X is not perfect, but not that Windows is better in some ways.
But Apple have admitted it in the past. Here’s just a couple of things I’ve seen Windows do that Apple has added:
- Command-tab switching
- Existing files selectable in Save dialog
Last week I suggested changes to the iPod and more people than not, disagreed. And I reckon this week it’ll be a lot worse. But if I added to this list “Change to Intel CPU’s"… two months ago I would have been burned at the stake. Now it seems we all think that change is logical. So before you get the flame thrower out remember, we know Apple make changes, they borrow from Windows and borrow from their 3rd party developers.
Also, I know I’m going to get flamed for this being a “tired old argument that has been done to death”. Sorry if you feel that way. just pretend I didn’t say these features already existed in Windows and that they are new and revolutionary. If we stop asking, Apple may think we don’t want them anymore. Microsoft copied so much from Mac OS, why can’t Apple do a little copying back?
And if you can take the heat, what would you like to see Apple borrow from Windows?
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Beeb wrote: “Your lack of imagination about why this function might be useful (quick access to volume control for each application) is unsurprising.”
I know exactly what the UI does. I’m asking to humor me for a minute and tell me WHY you why you want quick access to volume control for EACH application that’s running?
Beeb wrote: “Apple has no such feature, so you haven’t had to come up with some reason it’s the most awesomest awesomeness EVAH! It’s a Windows feature, so it must be useless and badly implemented.”
As mentioned in the article I linked to, many Windows applications had problems sharing access to an audio device due to limitations in Windows’ audio APIs.
“The other day someone wrote me wondering why they couldn’t be watching the football game in MCE but listening to music from Media Player. I incorrectly assumed it was a Media Center limitation but.. [It was a limitation in Windows]”
This issue had been around since Windows 3.1, which was launched in 1992. I don’t see adding this capability as a feature, I see it as “why the hell did it take Microsoft 15 years to fix this?” Even without the GUI mixer, Windows Vista users will receive significant benefits from this architectural change.
However, Mac OS X has had the ability for applications to control their own audio levels independent of the main hardware level since day one. As such, it hasn’t suffered from these sorts of limitations. Apple DOES HAVE this feature, it just doesn’t have individual USER volume controls for EACH APPLICATION.
Beeb wrote: “What I’m talking about has nothing to do with the alert channel.”
The Alert Volume in Mac OS X is just like the second “Windows Sounds” slider in the Vista mixer. Except It’s been around for years. XP didn’t have a Windows Sounds slider due to it’s limited audio API. That means the only thing Mac OS X is missing is rest of the sliders that let you individually control the volume of each application.
The point I’m making is that, in nearly every case, the applications that you’d really want to have individual control over (such as Windows Media Player) already have volume controls. The remaining apps do not make sounds at all or simply play notification and ALERT sounds when an event, such as new email or IM, occurs.
If all the non-media playing applications use the Alert channel for their notification sounds…
- The volume of all of these applications can be set at once using the alert volume control.
- Subsequent applications you launch that use the alert channel will automatically be set to this value.
Example, you’re listing to music, so you want to temporarily turn down the volume of all the applications except iTunes. Instead of having to turn down all of the non-media playing applications individually, you can simply turn down the Alert volume. They are all represented by one slider.
15 minutes later, you launch iChat. Since it too uses the alert channel, it automatically has it’s volume turned down. You don’t need to turn it down manually.
When you’re done listening to music, you can simply turn the alert volume back up and all alert sounds return to normal, regardless if the apps were running at the time or not.
Note: you have to click twice to access the expanded volume window, in which you could have just clicked to the app and changed it’s audio directly.
Again, is it cool looking? Yes. Could pro audio or power users find it useful? Probably. But if it’s really such a great feature, why did “Windows Apologist”, Paul Thurrott, rave about the new system clock and data / time windows, but fail to mention anything about per-application volume control in his review of the final version of Windows Vista?
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_05.asp
What I’m asking you is..
- What scenarios are not covered by the functionality I just described, which is already present in Mac OS X?
I’m asking to humor me for a minute
Nope. Because it would only be humoring you. Again, if I thought for one second you were actually interested in why I, or anyone else, would find this feature useful, I would. Personally, I think the usefulness is self-evident.
But you are not actually interested in hearing about its usefulness, as your rather verbose pre-argument screed demonstrates. It’s EXACTLY what I expected, and I didn’t even mention any reasons yet. I can only imagine the apologist contortions you’d have to go through if I’d actually listed a couple of reasons why I’d love to have this feature in OS X.
Beeb wrote: “Because it would only be humoring you.”
I asked you to “humor” me since you clearly implied that I had no imagination: “ Your lack of imagination ... is unsurprising”
Beeb wrote: “your rather verbose pre-argument screed demonstrates.”
Are you referring to how I’ve seen though Microsoft’s attempt to make per-applicaiton volume control in Vista some great new feature that EVERYBODY wants, instead of a badly needed fix that should have happened a decade ago?
Or the part when I showed that having two sliders (main and notification) would cover 80% of the most common scenarios regarding volume control? (Which Mac OS X already has)
Beeb wrote: “Personally, I think the usefulness is self-evident.”
Of course you do. You’re a video editor. Since I do multimedia production, I see how it could be useful is specific cases as well. But I’m asking you to use YOUR imagination and tell me why having a user volume control slider for EACH APPLICATION such a great feature for EVERYONE ELSE.
Heck, I’ll even throw in a freebee…
On rare occasions, I can see how people would I’d like to be able to control the volume of their a web browser due to ads with sounds or online video.
Scott wrote: But I’m asking you to use YOUR imagination and tell me why having a user volume control slider for EACH APPLICATION such a great feature for EVERYONE ELSE.
Hey, I’m back!
Now, Scott, good to see you’re still keeping this thread alive.
In response to that statement, I’d list the following:
- Exposé
- Automator
- Boot Camp
- Alt-tab switching
- Dashboard
etcetra
Not EVERYONE ELSE uses them, so why not take them out of OS X? In fact, I think you’d find, across all users, most users don’t use those features.
However, because Beeb has found a feature he likes and there hasn’t been a wave of publice support, you decide no one else would find it useful.
I’m with Beeb (yes, I know, again. But sometimes we do disagree - we had a nice little barney going six months ago).
Per application volume makes simple and perfect sense. Different tasks require different volumes.
Music you play loud, browsers you turn off, each applications alerts you may want to control volume for.
Personally, I’d strip my sound back to iTunes and Mail.
Apple, in all their cleverness, could easily attach global or local volume to a modifier key. eg hold commmand for global volume. They seem to like modifier keys.
also, they it would work is the volume control would default to local control, i.e. the app with the focus. And then the modifier key would give you the global override. And there would be a sound setting in preferences, to turn off per-app volume control, and one to toggle whether global or local is the default action.
It’s all very easy and just because it’s sort of new idea, we shouldn’t try to shoot it down. (That’s the scientific and medical mentaility. i.e. All new ideas must be proved wrong, not right.)
No one on this PLANET knew they wanted Exposé before it came out, yet some now swear by it.
If Beeb had have said a couple of years back, we need this visual application switcher thingy, you would have scoffed him off the web.
It certainly seems that the only good ideas come from Apple. Yet as a developer, you must know ways you’d like OS X improved, and must have some useful ideas for it.
And I know you do, coz you’ve written a better To Do than iCal’s. So there’s one example where you indentified a shortcoming in Apple’s software.
So rather than ragging every idea that is proposed simply because it’s not the Apple way (yet), why not give those ideas proper consideration.
In the last few weeks you’ve tried to shoot down
- Unminimize on alt-tab
- cut&paste;files from context menu and shortcut key
- per-application volume control
In all three cases you took the view, if you really get down to tin tacks, that Apple don’t do it that way, so they won’t do it.
That’s kinda illogical, eh. And fact is, Alt-tab, Exposé, Automator, Boot Camp, Dashboard etc all show that Apple WILL consider new ideas that don’t necessarily fit the past, and even if they’re not for EVERYONE ELSE.
Chris,
I’ve simply made observations on why I think Mac OS X does the things it does. I’ve even said:
“I’m not saying you should be happy Mac OS X does this, I’m simply saying there is a perfectly logical reason for it’s behavior.”
In nearly every case, I’ve been told that these observations were…
illogical
nonsensical
ridiculous
ludicrous
meaningless
etc.
and I’ve been called a one-dimensional Mac-atronic zombie.
I do not agree.. and have made that clear in my posts.
Chris wrote: “In the last few weeks you’ve tried to shoot down....”
Again, I’m not trying to shoot down features. I’m simply saying I think they would be better implemented in other ways that are more, “Mac like.” In fact, instead of just say these features were “ludicrous” and “meaningless”, I’ve even given detailed examples of how they could be implemented in a more Mac like way.
In regards to per-application volume control, Beeb asked me what I thought about it and I said, “...I don’t see it as being as useful as everyone is making it out to be.”
And even said…
“I’m sure that pro users may find such a window useful in production or custom audio installations environments, such as kiosks, etc.”
Then I got the usual.
“Shocking..
...
So such a feature, which as you say seems so obvious to everyone else, elicits a mere blank stare from you.”
response from Beeb.
I’m simply asking why it’s so “obvious to everyone else”
Chris wrote: “Per application volume makes simple and perfect sense. Different tasks require different volumes.”
And I’m simply pointing out that per-application volume control should be fixed at the application level by adding volume options to media-playing applications and using the alert channel for notification sounds.
Since applications couldn’t control their own volume independently before Vista, many existing applications didn’t have their own volume controls that use it. One of the reasons Microsoft decided to add an external mixer was to make this functionality available to users, even if they didn’t upgrade their applications.
Again, it may look like a great “feature” from your perspective, but it’s a solution to a problem that should have been fixed years ago.
In other words, just like the refresh menu item in WIndows Explorer, it shouldn’t be a crutch to solve some other bigger problem. You shouldn’t need a per-application “mixer” to manage sounds on your computer. It should be a optional feature for advanced users. In most cases, a Main and Notification volume is sufficient.
Chris wrote: “...Apple don’t do it that way, so they won’t do it. ... Exposé ... new ideas that don’t necessarily fit the past”
Chris, do realize the irony of your statement? Exposé is Apple’s way of switching windows, right? And what did Beeb ask to do? Switch windows with Alt-tab, even though alt-tab is for switching applications, which are not windows in Mac OS X. Sounds like the old way that MS Windows did it in the past, doesn’t it?
Wouldn’t it be a logical assumption that a better way to solve Beeb’s problem would be to allow users to select minimized windows using Exposé?
I’m not against adding an option in preferences that makes Alt-tab un-minimize a minimized window when none are visible. But don’t say Alt-tab should un-minimize windows by default just because there’s “no logical reason” or that’s it’s an “oversight” on Apple’s part.
Exposé is more than just an windows switcher. It revels the desktop (f11), show/switch application’s windows (f10), show/switch all applications’ windows (f9).
F9 is relatively useless if you have more than a few applications running. And F10 isn’t much better.
As a windows switcher, personally, I’ve never found Exposé much use. However, I work with text. People who work with images I’m sure would find it very useful.
Not sure why you see irony in my statement, unless I need to clarify and say (as I meant) “don’t necessarily fit *their* past”.
Personally, regards the unminimize, I reckon my two solutions were sh*t hot!
(i.e. a second row of document icons in alt-tab; or automatic F10 when switching to an application Dock or alt-tab)
One of my failings though, and I’m sure because of too many years on Windows, is suggesting any new idea could have an option in system preferences to override it. That is definitely not Apple’s way. That is one thing I can’t see them let happen - i.e. the System Preferences become awash with options to enable/disable things.
Onyx proves that. It adds squillions of toggles that Apple are there already, but Apple don’t include access to.
As far as per-app volume goes. I *definitely* want application alerts to be localized. Some alerts I want to be loud, and some very soft.
I definitely *do not* want more volume control sliders. I reckon Apple should ditch all general volume control sliders in iTunes, QT, and anywhere else. (Track and channel ones in GB, FCE/FCP etc are fine of course.)
I find it silly that there’s two ways to control volume in say iTunes. i.e. Global volume via the volume keys, and then a slide on the iTunes window.
As I said earlier, local control should be via the volume keys, with a modifier key to access global volume.
I know that means the user having to learn more key combinations, but with so many other OS X features accessible by obscure keyboard modifiers, well, it’s just one more.
(BTW, I’m not implying Windows doesn’t have its own plethora of obscure keyboard shortcuts)
Chris wrote: “As far as per-app volume goes. I *definitely* want application alerts to be localized. Some alerts I want to be loud, and some very soft.”
Without trying to come off like a smart ass, why? Isn’t that the whole idea of an alert? So you can hear it? And is that something you would change often?
For example, I either want to hear notifications from an app or I don’t. If I don’t, I simply turn off the notification sound in the application.
If I do, I usually want them to be at the same level as all of my notification sounds so I....get notified. When I want to listen to music or watch a video without being interrupted, I turn them all down using the Alert volume in preferences. Personally, I’ve never run into a scenario where I wanted one apps alert volume to be a bit quieter or louder than another. Then again, I’m not “everyone.”
Chris wrote: “I definitely *do not* want more volume control sliders. “
Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I meant that applications that play media (non-alert sounds) should have at least one volume control for their own output in the application itself. This includes games. Not that applications should have more volume controls than necessary.
When you want to turn down the volume down on a TV program, you usually turn down the volume on the TV, not turn down the TV’s channel on a mixer on your home stereo system. I think most people think the same way and, as such, your computer should work that way to. Having a mixer is icing on the cake.
Apps like iTunes on Mac OS X do have their own volume control that acts separately from the main volume.
Chris wrote: “I find it silly that there’s two ways to control volume in say iTunes. i.e. Global volume via the volume keys, and then a slide on the iTunes window.”
When you change the global volume, you’re not controlling just the volume of iTunes, you’re controlling the volume of all applications. This is two separate things on Mac OS X.
I think this matches how many home entertainment systems are setup. Your TV is plugged into your A/V channel in your amplifier. You can turn the TV up and down, or turn the amplifier up and down.
Global volume lets you turn everything down, so you don’t disturb your spouse when they take a nap, or so you can crank everything up, when your neighbor is cutting down trees in their back yard.
Chris wrote: “As I said earlier, local control should be via the volume keys, with a modifier key to access global volume.”
I like this idea. Having a standard keyboard shortcuts for volume control across applications would be great.
Except I’d flip it around. Modifier key controls the volume of the current app, no modifier controls global volume. Namely because, in most cases, i’d want to control the global volume instead of the app’s volume.
However, this wouldn’t work very well in document based media apps, like Quicktime Player, since each window has it’s own content and volume setting. (Then again, Quicktime Player really isn’t just a player, it’s also lets you capture and edit content)
Ok, I have to blush guiltily, Scott. Altho I do want localized control of alert volumes, the app that was making me think this way most of late is Adium.
And I just checked its preferences, and sure enough, you can turn down the volume of the alerts. Oops!
I can see that global volume should be the default width the volume keys, and local via modifier keys, as most users would probably expect it that way, and it would seem nuts to have iTunes blaring while surfing the web, then the phone rings so you hit the volume key to turn down iTunes but the music keeps blaring coz you’re in Safari.
Even if Apple left the sliders in iTunes and others, it’d still be nice if pressing option-volume keys would adjust that slider.
I was just reading an article that reminded me of another “Windows does this better” annoyance in OS X, and that’s the “little green button”. I think where Windows gets this wrong is the actual design of the buttons themselves, but at least in Windows the “maximize” actually does what it is suppo
My post got cut off somehow.
It was a rather ingenious and incredibly (dare I say, Pulitzer worthy?) thoughtful rant about the zoom button in OS X.
In any case, it’s all better said here anyway.
Agree totally with everything Eddie said in that link of Beeb’s except I reckon maximize should be accessible via a modifier key-click on the green button.
I never realized you could modify-click the green button. Does that sometimes work and sometimes not? I’m trying it now and it doesn’t seem to be doing anything differently.
sorry beeb - it’s a wish. And now Apple has delayed Leopard, they’ve got plenty of time to add that functionality.
Delayed until October? Wow. Looks like they are borrowing from the Microsoft playbook after all!