What OS X Could Learn From Windows
Okay.
Hard hat? Check.
Flak jacket? Check.
Flame proof vest? Check.
White flag? Check.
Deep breath? Check.
Windows has some features OS X could do with.
There, I said it. Nice and quick and up front. No beating around the bush. So what now? Duck!!!
Is it safe to come out yet? I’ve been burnt before daring to suggest this. But here I am again, sucker for punishment.
1) Compatible control keys. Switching between Mac and Windows this drives me nuts. I have to consciously think “command-C or control-C?” It shouldn’t have to be that way. And if you’re running RDC or VPC and copying and pasting between OS X and Windows!! Sheesh!
The problem isn’t the labeling, it’s the location of the keys used. I had to use a Windows PC today and I kept pressing Alt-C to copy. This is why it’s a problem. If it was simply a matter of labeling, no worries, mate. Apple - and the zealotry - need to concede that this battle is lost.
Implementing this would rock many people’s boats, so if Apple did make this change it’d have some serious domino affect on other keystrokes and applications that use them, but maybe it could be done with the switch to Intel, just to ease the pain slightly.
2) Save button on toolbars. I don’t think any of the Apple software ever gives you the option to include a Save button. Print button yes, Save button no. A little test - raise your hand if you save your work more often than you print it? Ah, so I’m not alone. Good. You can put your hands down. Thank you.
3) A multi button mouse. And you thought I’d say two. Why stop at two? Especially with things like Exposé, Dashboard and Spotlight. They’re just crying out for single click activation from a mouse. Ok. So this isn’t a Windows feature per sé, but still is needed.
4) Only show relevant file types in open and save dialogs. For those who like seeing every file that’s every existed in their Documents folder, give them a checkbox to show all files. But personally, if I am opening a Pages file, I don’t want to see all my iMovie, Excel, iDVD etc files. And OS X already knows which are which because non-related ones are greyed out.
5) Sort folders to top of directory listings I know that we don’t go folder mining as much since we got Spotlight, so I won’t labor on about this one.
6) More context sensitive help. I notice since I first raised this two years ago, more of it has crept into OS X. So I guess at least I can’t be flamed for this one!
Now why is it that I can list all the features I want Leopard to have and as long as none of them are from Windows, its cool? But dare suggest OS X needs a feature already in Windows and the world comes down on you. We can admit that OS X is not perfect, but not that Windows is better in some ways.
But Apple have admitted it in the past. Here’s just a couple of things I’ve seen Windows do that Apple has added:
- Command-tab switching
- Existing files selectable in Save dialog
Last week I suggested changes to the iPod and more people than not, disagreed. And I reckon this week it’ll be a lot worse. But if I added to this list “Change to Intel CPU’s"… two months ago I would have been burned at the stake. Now it seems we all think that change is logical. So before you get the flame thrower out remember, we know Apple make changes, they borrow from Windows and borrow from their 3rd party developers.
Also, I know I’m going to get flamed for this being a “tired old argument that has been done to death”. Sorry if you feel that way. just pretend I didn’t say these features already existed in Windows and that they are new and revolutionary. If we stop asking, Apple may think we don’t want them anymore. Microsoft copied so much from Mac OS, why can’t Apple do a little copying back?
And if you can take the heat, what would you like to see Apple borrow from Windows?
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Wow, so you mean to tell me this thread didn’t solve the neverending debate on two button mice and key placement? Damn, and I had such high hopes.
Of course I am just kidding, I never expected this single thread to somehow resolve what has not been settled for quite a long time now. But I thought it was a good thread and everyone managed to stay pretty civil about it, which believe it or not is a stark contrast to how these conversations typically end up.
I guess we are just left a little more aware of each others preferences, but still without a clear consensus on the matter.
That is of course unless Steveie boy decides to go the way of the two button, that will be sure to get everyone right in line....
Lemming 1:"Hey look guys we’re the only creatures who jump off cliffs. We should stop.”
Lemming 2: “No way! This is the way it’s always been. They’re the ones who are wrong. This way is much simpler - no worrying about when you’re going to die.”
Lemming 1: “But… we could live longer!”
Lemming 2: “Look - we’re right and they’re wrong. Our leader said so. Now just jump will ya, you’re holding up the queue.”
(sorry if this double posts)
Barefeet, you said, “Highlighting a file and pressing enter should open it.” I have to give the edge to the Mac on this issue. Since you know you want to open the file, press Command-O (the open shortcut). Makes perfect sense to me.
A one-button mouse is much better ergonomically than a multi-button mouse. The whole mouse is effectively the button, which is much easier on your hand in the long run.
It is physically easier to use one hand with the command key than it is to use the control key--unless you plan to use both hands which sort of defeats the purpose of shortcut keys like this. Your fingers have to stretch too far for the control key. Try it. Which is easier? Control+G or Command+G. Try H.
G… neither
H… neither
I press the Command key with my thumb and the Control key with my pinkie. Anything past “H” and I need to use my right hand with either (no I haven’t developed the habit of using the command key on the right of the keyboard, but I gather others haven’t either from their comments)
Logically, a shortcut key should work quickly and efficiently with one hand
Yes. like the Paste and Match Style for instance a very useful command but…
Option-Shift-Command-V
Try that on a laptop!
Is that simplicity? It’s hard enough to remember let alone the dexterity required to perform. I actually end up using my right hand on the “V” to make it easier.
Maybe on a full sized keyboard it would be a little easier.
I’m in Safari and there are 23 key combinations that require more than one controller key. Me thinks most people probably use the mouse instead of getting into that “dance of the tangled fingers”!
And those who defend the one button mouse… tried one buttoning on a Powerbook trackpad? Talk about stretching and complicated!!!! Moving the pointer with your right hand and clicking the Control key with the left and the trrackpad button with either hand! Two hands to use it! WTF?! Maybe you’re a gymnast and learned to use three fingers on your left hand, but that’s just as convoluted.
Thus I have I have a two button trackball.
Having to purchase system extensions and peripherals to achieve a functionality does not therefore prove that the existing interface is simple to use. Quite the opposite really.
I AGREE APPLE IS RIGHT on their use of the command key versus Windows use of the Control key but that’s no reason to not concede defeat. That’s lemming thinking (see earlier post).
I also agree (and said) it would be the most diffiicult of my requests to implement and achieve.
I also agree Apple will never change that but still think, since they’re the minority, they should - especially if they want to make it easier for switchers.
And yes, my brain is too feeble to cope with having to switch back and forth all day.
Apple DO concede on some things and we never seem to be able to predict which ones. For example.
- Intel
- USB (the default on iPods now because? To keep Windows users happy!)
- ADB
- Command-tab
- Existing files selectable in open/save dialogs
- Context sensitve (command click) menus. They admit they are useful but not that using only one hand to select them is easier.
- Context sensitive help (tho still not enough of it)
It’s always dangerous waters to believe Apple when they say “never”.
OS X and the Mac can still be improved. Some of those improvements can - and will - be taken from Windows. They may not be the ones I’ve suggested. But they may too…
Is the two button mouse thing REALLY an issue at all? I mean this has nearly turned into a discussion all unto itself. Is one-button better? Who knows? Who cares? Is two buttons confusing? Maybe to some and not to others. I suppose the end-all solution is to further promote the Mac Mini and leave the choice up to the individual. I’m sure most of them will end up with a two button mouse just based on cost.
But for what it’s worth, where are the 4-button+scroll wheel mouse fanboys? I sure do miss that “back” button, not to mention the scroll wheel. It pains me that surfing is easier on my Powerbook with its handy dandy new scroll function than it is with my trusty one button iMac mouse. If Apple put half the engineering toward reinventing the mouse as they have into the iPod I’m sure we’d see some pretty cool stuff.
I like how the reasoning for a one button mouse went from being less confusing to “ergonomically superior”.
I wonder whats next, easier to clean perhaps? Sturdier design? After all one less button to break right?
I like how (a) you’re acting like there can’t be multiple reasons for having a one-button mouse and (b) you didn’t actually address my comment that it’s better ergonomically.
If Apple put half the engineering toward reinventing the mouse as they have into the iPod I’m sure we’d see some pretty cool stuff.
Spot on, Dick! Look at what they did when they turned their attention to the one button mouse. If they applied the same energy to the multi-button variant, it certainly would be the coolest mouse ever!
Is the two button mouse thing REALLY an issue at all?
Now there’s a fair question! If it’s not an issue - which it shouldn’t be - why not just supply a two button mouse standard? And I bet production of one-button mouses would die off overnight. Like, would all those defending the one-button mouse really care enough if Apple provided only a two-button, to go out and buy a one button?
Changing the controller keys I proposed would upset EVERY Mac user. So I can perfectly understand and accept it won’t happen.
On the other hand, changing to a multi-button mouse would only upset people’s philosophies. It would have no detrimental affect on the way they work or their productivity. There is no valid negative reason yet proposed for not changing.
A one-button mouse is much better ergonomically than a multi-button mouse.
First of all, I don’t agree. Even IF there were a non-pathetic argument for a one-button mouse over a two-button mouse, ergonomics isn’t one of them. For one thing, and this is subjective obviously, the Apple mouse is the worst designed mouse in the universe (in terms of functionality; it actually does LOOK great). More importantly, however, using a one-button mouse requires using the other hand for certain menus instead of simply using the same hand to click the right-button. That is, by definition, less ergonomic.
Second of all, all of these arguments are so obviously post-facto justifications that it renders them pretty much moot. It presumes, in other words, that Mac fanatics weighed the differences between the one and two button mice and decided through rational reasoning that the one button was better instead of just using what Apple gave them and finding ways to justify why it’s better.
But like Chris says, if Apple made the switch, all of those arguments would immediately evaporate or completely reverse themselves, as we’ve seen them do repeatedly in the past:
Like, would all those defending the one-button mouse really care enough if Apple provided only a two-button, to go out and buy a one button?
Exactly.
Btw, I don’t want to make my comments entirely about the mouse, which technically isn’t really relevant to the topic anyway.
My other issue, with folder sharing, is actually much more important. While Sharepoints solves this problem via a free 3rd party app, I still think OSX should support this natively. The convenience of this vastly outweighs the security issues, which are pretty much a non-issue anyway. First, having the feature doesn’t require that you use the feature. And if sharing a non-Public folder is too daring for you, then don’t do it. Second, I share folders ALL THE TIME on a closed network with no security issues at all.
I think this is a pretty clear cut case of XP having a superior functionality over OSX. But of course in the Apple reality distortion field, there is no such thing.
My other issue, with folder sharing, is actually much more important.
I agree with this one too. In small peer to peer networks in particular. Many times I’ve wanted to share my DVD-ROM on the other computers in my home network. If I want to access one of my kids files.
And what about backups?!!!!!! If I could share out my kids’ and wife’s home directory, backing them up would be a cinch. Instead I have to log into each. (Unless someone knows of a reasonably priced backup software that gets around this limitation.)
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned this one before (or maybe I just didn’t see it) but one thing that I think OS X could do well to adopt is the way Windows handles hot keys for menus. I’m talking about Alt+F for File, Alt+E for Edit, etc. In case you’re not familiar, in windows, all the application menus (and certain options) have a key associated with them that allows them to be activated using the keyboard.
For example, let’s say that I wanted to select all the text in a document. On Windows, I can hit Alt+E, then while still holding Alt, press A (the key for select all). Or I can just hit Ctrl+A, but that’s not the point, I’m just using an example.
Granted, I’m more of a keyboard user, and as such, am very used to hotkeys (and FWIW, I like the Macs Command over Ctrl implementation better, after having years of experience with each, but that’s neither here nor there) but sometimes I forget what a shortcut is for some hardly used option, or it varies from program to programs (IE: TextWrangler, by default, maps “Save to FTP” to Cmd-Shift-S, instead of Save As… which is what I’m accustomed to). On a Mac, I’d first have to enable Keyboard Access (why isn’t this on by default? More confusing? Maybe, but it’s hardly something I see tons of so-called “average users” doing by accident, but again, I digress) then hold Ctrl, then hit F2. (on my PowerBook, I also need to hold Fn). And even that only selects the first menu, I need to arrow through the menu options and hierarchy. Lord help me if the option I need is buried 27 items down in 3 submenus (hyperbole here folks), but still.
Just my two cents.
On Windows XP I could edit or change a file name from the open/save dialogue box. There are times when I need to fix a typo or rename a file or give it a number so that it doesn’t conflict with a file I’m going to save. This is very convenient and I hope Apple adopts this for OS X.
As for the Command key vs. the Control key I much prefer the Command key because it’s more natural. With your thumb on the command key, acting as the axis, you have a better rotation or twist of your wrist as you type the other keys with your other fingers. The control key would make the other keys further away if you use your thumb on it, therefore, making you use your pinky finger. This sometimes forces you to use your thumb to press a key. It was a little problem at first when I first started using PCs along with Macs but you get accustom to it and it becomes easier to remember to use control key for windows and command key for macs.
Okay. For those of you too dim to realize the solutions to a few of your problems instantly.
Everyone who’s complaining about only being able to share the “Public” and “shared” folders - log in using an admin account and you can mount any drive in its entirety! Just mount the damn drive and be done with it! Access to every folder you want! No muss, no fuss! I mean, come on people, you’d have to have seen this available when it asks you what you want to mount…
People complaining about not being able to tab to buttons and the like: Open system preferences, go into Keyboard and Mouse, switch to the shortcuts tab, and click the “all controls” radio button at the bottom. There, it’s done. Very easy.
Two-button mice are good things. If you have a user who’s having serious problems, either tell them to never ever use the right button or glue it to an inactive position.
Menus already have hot keys, assignable from within the keyboard shortcuts section.
Okay. For those of you too dim to realize the solutions to a few of your problems instantly.
Gee, and Mac fanatics wonder why they have such a hard time winning people over.
Everyone who’s complaining about only being able to share the “Public” and “shared” folders - log in using an admin account and you can mount any drive in its entirety!
I don’t want to mount an entire drive. I want to share specific folders. I also don’t want to log on using an admin account every time I do this.
So that’s not really a “solution” is it, in that it doesn’t do what I want it to, and even still, this half-ass way of doing it is still more trouble than in XP.
And why having a CTRL key an inch further down the keyboard is some kind of horrible design but having to logon as admin and mount an entire drive just to share a folder with my network is considered “no muss, no fuss” is beyond comprehension. The fanatics never fail to impress me with the power of the reality distortion field.