What OS X Could Learn From Windows
Okay.
Hard hat? Check.
Flak jacket? Check.
Flame proof vest? Check.
White flag? Check.
Deep breath? Check.
Windows has some features OS X could do with.
There, I said it. Nice and quick and up front. No beating around the bush. So what now? Duck!!!
Is it safe to come out yet? I’ve been burnt before daring to suggest this. But here I am again, sucker for punishment.
1) Compatible control keys. Switching between Mac and Windows this drives me nuts. I have to consciously think “command-C or control-C?” It shouldn’t have to be that way. And if you’re running RDC or VPC and copying and pasting between OS X and Windows!! Sheesh!
The problem isn’t the labeling, it’s the location of the keys used. I had to use a Windows PC today and I kept pressing Alt-C to copy. This is why it’s a problem. If it was simply a matter of labeling, no worries, mate. Apple - and the zealotry - need to concede that this battle is lost.
Implementing this would rock many people’s boats, so if Apple did make this change it’d have some serious domino affect on other keystrokes and applications that use them, but maybe it could be done with the switch to Intel, just to ease the pain slightly.
2) Save button on toolbars. I don’t think any of the Apple software ever gives you the option to include a Save button. Print button yes, Save button no. A little test - raise your hand if you save your work more often than you print it? Ah, so I’m not alone. Good. You can put your hands down. Thank you.
3) A multi button mouse. And you thought I’d say two. Why stop at two? Especially with things like Exposé, Dashboard and Spotlight. They’re just crying out for single click activation from a mouse. Ok. So this isn’t a Windows feature per sé, but still is needed.
4) Only show relevant file types in open and save dialogs. For those who like seeing every file that’s every existed in their Documents folder, give them a checkbox to show all files. But personally, if I am opening a Pages file, I don’t want to see all my iMovie, Excel, iDVD etc files. And OS X already knows which are which because non-related ones are greyed out.
5) Sort folders to top of directory listings I know that we don’t go folder mining as much since we got Spotlight, so I won’t labor on about this one.
6) More context sensitive help. I notice since I first raised this two years ago, more of it has crept into OS X. So I guess at least I can’t be flamed for this one!
Now why is it that I can list all the features I want Leopard to have and as long as none of them are from Windows, its cool? But dare suggest OS X needs a feature already in Windows and the world comes down on you. We can admit that OS X is not perfect, but not that Windows is better in some ways.
But Apple have admitted it in the past. Here’s just a couple of things I’ve seen Windows do that Apple has added:
- Command-tab switching
- Existing files selectable in Save dialog
Last week I suggested changes to the iPod and more people than not, disagreed. And I reckon this week it’ll be a lot worse. But if I added to this list “Change to Intel CPU’s"… two months ago I would have been burned at the stake. Now it seems we all think that change is logical. So before you get the flame thrower out remember, we know Apple make changes, they borrow from Windows and borrow from their 3rd party developers.
Also, I know I’m going to get flamed for this being a “tired old argument that has been done to death”. Sorry if you feel that way. just pretend I didn’t say these features already existed in Windows and that they are new and revolutionary. If we stop asking, Apple may think we don’t want them anymore. Microsoft copied so much from Mac OS, why can’t Apple do a little copying back?
And if you can take the heat, what would you like to see Apple borrow from Windows?
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Others have mentioned this but it’s such a UI issue for me that I’ll echo it: using the arrow keys to move between options in dialog boxes. Thanks for the tip about the System Prefs setting, but that seems to only work with Tab, and support is minimal (no iTunes support, for example).
Just a case in point, the whole bruhaha over a 2 button mouse is rediculous. Someone stated above that they refuse to use 2 hands to access contextual menues, what’s the big deal? I have my left hand on the keyboard all the time and my right on the mouse most of the time. It really poses no problem for me. I guess I can safely assume that NONE of the switchers play drums, huh? The thing that gets me jacked in these dicussions, is the way all the trolls throw around the terms mac zealots and mac fanatics. Just because I prefer to do things a certain way or have grown acustomed to things being a certain way, means I am some sort of mindless steve jobs lover, and that his word is law. Whatever. I guess the same could be said about those who declare the windows way is the right way. I mean come on people, think it through, it’s all what you have been exposed to. Put a little effort into it, I’m sure that when you 1st started using windows, you didn’t immediately know everything about the operating system. This is a microcosm of what is wrong with this country, people are too damned lazy to put forth the effort!
Geez, you bunch of whiney losers. Stick to windows if the mac sucks so bad.
I’ll let you know up front: Windows & Linux user. I’ll openly admit, I’m not a much fan of the OSX OS, but I do watch it in the hopes it’ll someday be at a place I’d enjoy. But hey, that’s my opinion, and I’ll certainly not foist on you—tastes differ.
That said: Good God. I never thought I’d come to a Mac fan site and find so many people dismiss a two-button mouse as ‘too complicated’ or ‘not simple enough’ while at the same time touting **keyboard shortcuts** as easier. The mind boggles.
Also, I see a lot of people saying “If a 2-button mouse is so important, just buy” one. This is, of course, an incredibly short-sighted, bordering on ludicrously ignorant attitude. Let’s explore our computing history with a little segueway into game consoles.
Sony’s PS1 comes out with two controller ports. They have available, a 3rd-party device that allws up to 4 controllers to be plugged in, assuming the games take advantage of it. Percentage of 4-player games on the PS1: maybe, 5. That’s probably over-estimating it.
Nintendo’s N64 comes out with four controller ports. Percentage of 4-player games on the N64: 90%. Maybe higher, it didn’t take long for games to be eschewed if they didn’t support full-blown 4-player modes (even if some of them were lousy).
Sony’s PS2 comes out: 4 controller ports.
Microsofts’s XBOX comes out: 4 controller ports.
This is, as we say, a lesson of history. Something’s availablity alone does not drive usage, having it built-in (ie. standard) does. Ship a 2-button mouse with every new Mac and in 5 years there’ll be almost no commercial Mac apps that don’t have context menus. Users won’t care if there’s a 2nd button, or context menus, if they don’t use them. Once you get used to having them, you’re not quite sure how you got by without them.
As for the control key placement, well, I can see how that would be disruptive. I’m not sure which layout is better, but arguing that against the spacebar is better because of ‘proximity’ is pretty lame. I frankly find ALT+key a lot more clumsy than CTRL+key because it’s easier to find the corner than 3 keys in from the corner. But that probably must means either is equally easy.
Still, going by my earlier point, if you want to make things easier for switchers, I’d make the windows layout the default and let old Mac hands switch (hell, ask at install if it’s a big deal). They’ll know how to do it. New users won’t.
Someone stated above that they refuse to use 2 hands to access contextual menues, what’s the big deal?
The question is about which one is more ergonomic and simple to use. Without question, the two button mouse is more ergonomic since it requires only one hand instead of two. And most would argue that it’s also simpler, since it not only requires just one hand but it also, especially on the Mac, gives you the OPTION of using the keyboard or the mouse. The one-button mouse does not.
And since you bring it up, one of my issues was how Mac zealots dismiss such ergonomic inferiority as “no big deal” then make a big “bruhaha” over the CTRL button on PCs being an inch further away than the CMD key on the Mac.
Stick to windows if the mac sucks so bad.
Ah, the whining call of the red-crested Mac fanatic. NO ONE has suggested that Macs suck or that they are in any way inferior to Windows. They’ve only suggested that *horror of horrors!* a couple of features work better in Windows than OSX. Folder sharing, for example, is a big one for me. But in no way do I think Windows is the “right way.” That depends on what your needs as a user.
Only the most blind-fool zealot (hint: you) could possibly interpret that as any kind of attack on OSX or that OSX sucks.
As I already pointed out (and Scott as well), only allowing the average user to share only from the public folder was a CONSCIOUS SECURITY CHOICE by Apple.
That doesn’t change the fact that it IS indeed more difficult to share folders in OSX than in XP. Knowing that they did that on purpose doesn’t make it any easier for me to do in OSX what is fairly straight-forward in XP. I still need a 3rd party app to make it even close to as simple, and it’s still not quite there.
What is with you zealots? Is it SO impossible to even entertain the notion that one single thing in XP might be even the slightest bit better or easier than OSX? Good effin grief.
The question is about which one is more ergonomic and simple to use. Without question, the two button mouse is more ergonomic since it requires only one hand instead of two.
Saying that over and over again doesn’t make it true. I doubt you’ll stop saying it (or name-calling) though, so carry on…
Beeblebrox,
You’re missing the point. Arbitrarily sharing folders *is* supposed to be more difficult on Mac OS X. This is not a bug but a feature.
Do you think that Apple randomly decided to only allow users to share their home directory? Are you so short sighted that you believe everyone is as knowledgeable as you when it comes to sharing files?
There are probably millions of compromised Windows boxes out there due to someone sharing a folder without setting the correct permissions. This may have been improved with XP, but Apple gives you most if not nearly all of same capabilities with absolutely none of the risk. Easier isn’t necessary better.
This is not a bug but a feature.</I.
I never said it was a bug. I said it was more difficult to share folders in OSX. You haven’t denied that either. And I don’t care what the justification is.
<i>Do you think that Apple randomly decided to only allow users to share their home directory?
No. But that doesn’t it make it any easier for me to share folders in OSX, does it? And you haven’t disagreed with that at all. All you’re doing is providing excuses for Apple. I’m not interested in excuses.
Saying that over and over again doesn’t make it true.
Not much an argument, lavar78, and I could say the same thing to you. I could, but I won’t because it’s a rather lame way to defend a point when you provide nothing else to back it up.
So for good measure, I’ll say it yet again:
A mouse that requires two hands to perform a task is LESS ergonomic than a mouse that requires only one.
Anyone got a better argument than lavar’s Pythonesque: “No it isn’t”?
I never thought I’d come to a Mac fan site and find so many people dismiss a two-button mouse as ‘too complicated’ or ‘not simple enough’ while at the same time touting **keyboard shortcuts** as easier.
That sums it up perfectly. Thanks, Godai
When Windows first came out and required a mouse with a right button, everyone said “What’s it for?” The answer was, when in doubt, right click.
Context sensitive elements such as toolbars, right-click menus and help are one of the better contributions Microsoft has made to the GUI.
Many have said they know so many people who don’t use the right mouse button and I totally, totally agree. Having supported Windows users in my job for many years I was always amazed how many didn’t use the right click. I would re-educate them and they’d be happy. My wife is one of them too!
But guess what?? They DO NOT use key combinations either. They use toolbars and menus.
Although this might render the argument for a two-button mouse moot, it also blows away the argument that key combinations are user friendly.
GUI’s provide 4 elements for accessing functions: Toolbars, Palettes, Menus, Key combinations.
The majority of Windows users from my experience do not use key combinations, and I’m finding new Mac users do likewise.
There are a handful of exceptions: Cut, Copy, Paste, Bold being a few that spring to mind - notably all single modifier-key combinations.
How many people who’ve bought an after sales mouse for a Mac, have bought a one-button? I’d expect the percentages to heavily favor two-button.
Anyone got a better argument than lavar’s Pythonesque: “No it isn’t”?
I explained why I feel differently earlier in the comments. Would you like me to copy and paste it for you?
I agree, but I think the main two reasons are that (1) all desktop Macs except the Mini already come with a one-button mouse and (2) there are many, many more with two buttons.
Beeblebrox,
You are obviously trolling, my point simply was do not expect native/longtime users to agree to turn their world upside down just attract windows users. What would be the upside for me? Cheaper prices due to the installed user base? That’s pretty minor compared to the hit my productivity would take. You are nothing more than a F@%!ing windows fanboy, who assumes larger numbers equal superiority. Wrong, as I said before learn the language or get out!
Do you even use OSX? If so must be on a limited basis, probably an IT professional or Network admin. I’m used to hearing this crap from the likes of you. Also, I made no mention of ergonomics, but since you brought it up: I would asssume that ergonmics should be based on a users needs. I myself have big meaty hands and carpal tunnel, a single button mouse just makes sense, as I am sure it does to a lot of users(based on their needs) We could debate this all day, but frankly you bore me with your silly comments. Please stick to your 50 button mouse and superior OS and ergonomic keyboard, I have no need for it. Go ahead and slap whatever lable you want on me, we all know you are nothing but a sniveling little geek hiding behind his/her big bad words.
I explained why I feel differently earlier in the comments.
You mean the one in which you seriously make the claim that resting your FINGER by being able to click with your whole palm “MORE THAN OUTWEIGHS” the benefit of not having to use your WHOLE OTHER HAND when operating a two button mouse?
Let’s follow the Mac-fanatic logic, shall we? Resting one finger is BETTER than resting the a whole hand. Is that pretty much what you’re saying?
What you really explained is why you PREFER the single-button mouse. That’s not really the same thing, though. I might PREFER to buy a new battery instead of recharging a dead one. That doesn’t make it the simpler or easier solution.
And as Chris says, if Macs shipped with a two-button mouse, would you, given your strong argument in favor of them, REPLACE it with a single-button mouse?
You are obviously trolling
Ditto.
my point simply was do not expect native/longtime users to agree to turn their world upside down just attract windows users.
And how exactly does making folders easier to share turn your world upside down? Would you even notice if they added this feature?
You are nothing more than a F@%!ing windows fanboy, who assumes larger numbers equal superiority.
Ha ha. Nice try but no. I use both XP and OSX every day and no particular loyalty for either. I like some features about XP and others about OSX.
Only in the twisted distorted world of the Mac fanatic could I be defined as a “windows fanboy” for saying both systems are pretty good.
Do you even use OSX?
Yes. Why do you think I’m so frustrated at not being able to share folders outside of my Public folder?
If so must be on a limited basis, probably an IT professional or Network admin.
If by “limited basis” you mean “every day,” then yes. And no I’m not an IT pro. I’m a writer/director in the film industry. I use the Mac for editing, watching movies, the occassional web browsing, Itunes podcasting, and a few other things.
Go ahead and slap whatever lable you want on me, we all know you are nothing but a sniveling little geek hiding behind his/her big bad words.
What’s funny is that the Mac-fanatic hypocrites will then criticize ME for “name calling,” like lavar just did.
Oh well, that’s the Mac fanatic universe for you. Anything less than drooling blind praise of OSX makes you a Windows fanboy who thinks OSX sucks.
Btw, this thread just shattered the record for most responses. The second highest one was about “How Microsoft will die.” In both, someone dared suggest that MS may not be total trash or quite ready to die. And in the Mac world, that’s called throwing gasoline on a fire.
It seems the secret to generating traffic in an online thread is controversy. Who knew?