What OS X Could Learn From Windows
Okay.
Hard hat? Check.
Flak jacket? Check.
Flame proof vest? Check.
White flag? Check.
Deep breath? Check.
Windows has some features OS X could do with.
There, I said it. Nice and quick and up front. No beating around the bush. So what now? Duck!!!
Is it safe to come out yet? I’ve been burnt before daring to suggest this. But here I am again, sucker for punishment.
1) Compatible control keys. Switching between Mac and Windows this drives me nuts. I have to consciously think “command-C or control-C?” It shouldn’t have to be that way. And if you’re running RDC or VPC and copying and pasting between OS X and Windows!! Sheesh!
The problem isn’t the labeling, it’s the location of the keys used. I had to use a Windows PC today and I kept pressing Alt-C to copy. This is why it’s a problem. If it was simply a matter of labeling, no worries, mate. Apple - and the zealotry - need to concede that this battle is lost.
Implementing this would rock many people’s boats, so if Apple did make this change it’d have some serious domino affect on other keystrokes and applications that use them, but maybe it could be done with the switch to Intel, just to ease the pain slightly.
2) Save button on toolbars. I don’t think any of the Apple software ever gives you the option to include a Save button. Print button yes, Save button no. A little test - raise your hand if you save your work more often than you print it? Ah, so I’m not alone. Good. You can put your hands down. Thank you.
3) A multi button mouse. And you thought I’d say two. Why stop at two? Especially with things like Exposé, Dashboard and Spotlight. They’re just crying out for single click activation from a mouse. Ok. So this isn’t a Windows feature per sé, but still is needed.
4) Only show relevant file types in open and save dialogs. For those who like seeing every file that’s every existed in their Documents folder, give them a checkbox to show all files. But personally, if I am opening a Pages file, I don’t want to see all my iMovie, Excel, iDVD etc files. And OS X already knows which are which because non-related ones are greyed out.
5) Sort folders to top of directory listings I know that we don’t go folder mining as much since we got Spotlight, so I won’t labor on about this one.
6) More context sensitive help. I notice since I first raised this two years ago, more of it has crept into OS X. So I guess at least I can’t be flamed for this one!
Now why is it that I can list all the features I want Leopard to have and as long as none of them are from Windows, its cool? But dare suggest OS X needs a feature already in Windows and the world comes down on you. We can admit that OS X is not perfect, but not that Windows is better in some ways.
But Apple have admitted it in the past. Here’s just a couple of things I’ve seen Windows do that Apple has added:
- Command-tab switching
- Existing files selectable in Save dialog
Last week I suggested changes to the iPod and more people than not, disagreed. And I reckon this week it’ll be a lot worse. But if I added to this list “Change to Intel CPU’s"… two months ago I would have been burned at the stake. Now it seems we all think that change is logical. So before you get the flame thrower out remember, we know Apple make changes, they borrow from Windows and borrow from their 3rd party developers.
Also, I know I’m going to get flamed for this being a “tired old argument that has been done to death”. Sorry if you feel that way. just pretend I didn’t say these features already existed in Windows and that they are new and revolutionary. If we stop asking, Apple may think we don’t want them anymore. Microsoft copied so much from Mac OS, why can’t Apple do a little copying back?
And if you can take the heat, what would you like to see Apple borrow from Windows?
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Let’s follow the Mac-fanatic logic, shall we? Resting one finger is BETTER than resting the a whole hand. Is that pretty much what you’re saying?
Yes. Apparently, you don’t understand the concept of ergonomics. As someone mentioned earlier, one of the main principles is that force should be exerted by the largest muscle group possible. Using your whole palm to click the mouse is better than using your individual fingers. As far as having to use your other hand goes, that’s why I mentioned that the fingers on your dominant hand are allowed to rest. If you’re right handed, your left hand does less work at the computer; making it hold control isn’t as big a deal as overworking the fingers on your right hand.
I hesitate to answer your last question because I don’t want to distract you from responding to the above. Nevertheless, I will. Yes, I would buy a one-button mouse. It feels better. To be honest, I also use a Logitech MX-518 every so often. Like most things, there are pros and cons for each. OTOH, I realize that’s an opinion we probably don’t share.
Yes. Apparently, you don’t understand the concept of ergonomics. As someone mentioned earlier, one of the main principles is that force should be exerted by the largest muscle group possible.
If we’re talking in terms of preference, then I PERSONALLY find the Mac mouse much more taxing on my hand than my Logitech. And given that almost everyone I know throws out their Mac mouse in favor of a multi-button mouse, then I’m guessing I’m not the only one.
But in terms of basic ergonomics, your point is only valid if all else is equal, which it isn’t. In other words, if it were ONLY a choice between using your whole palm to depress a button vs using a single finger, then yes, the preference would be for using the palm. But all things are NOT equal and your point was that the benefit of using your palm on the Mac mouse while being forced to use your other hand for context-sensitive menus MORE THAN OUTWEIGHS the benefit of using only one hand but having to press buttons with your fingers.
Since I’m assuming you use your individual fingers and not your whole palm to type on your keyboard, then the single-button still requires a greater exertion of muscle power to control BOTH hands plus the fingers controlling the keys, while a multi-button mouse requires the use of only two fingers on ONE hand.
There are a number of reasons that Apple specifies a single button mouse:
- It means that applications should be designed to work with any single press pointing device, whether it is a mouse, a footpad or an eye tracker. While the mouse and trackpad are the current industry standard, Mac applications can work with other devices.
- It eliminates button creep. In the 1970s and early 1980s, the THREE button mouse was the industry standard. Apple went for the the one button mouse while Microsoft went for a two button version. Once you argue for more buttons, you find yourself drifting towards the old TX-1 where you pointed with the light pen and threw some combinaton of the 64 console switches.
Look at Adobe applications. They are popular among professionals and power users. They work with mice, trackpads, tablets, pressure pens and so on. Adobe lets you modify the meaning of a mouse action using the command, shift, control, option and space keys. That’s right. Pressing the space key means drag-to-scroll, command-space means zoom in, command-option-space means zoom out. I am not making this up. Novices using Adobe Elements often collapse in shock when they discover this.
The optimal Adobe mouse would have at least five buttons, and they’d have to work with button chording so you can do command-option-space drags. I doubt that Adobe is alone with this modification mechanism, though they likely have the largest user group that would scream blue murder if you proposed removing any of these features.
- The Apple compromise was to say that any application should be usable with a single button mouse. Zero was too few. For added convenience, use keyboard modifiers, pressure sensitivity or extra mouse buttons as they are available. Apple does nothing to PREVENT the use of additional mouse buttons. They merely request that designers not require them.
Since I’m assuming you use your individual fingers and not your whole palm to type on your keyboard, then the single-button still requires a greater exertion of muscle power to control BOTH hands plus the fingers controlling the keys, while a multi-button mouse requires the use of only two fingers on ONE hand.
You’re still not getting it. Let’s make the entirely reasonable assumption that the large majority of computer users (left-)click more than they right-/ctrl-click. By using a one-button mouse, the most repetitive action you do can be performed with a larger muscle group. If you’re using two buttons all the time (and rarely using modifier keys when mousing), your left hand gets to rest whenever you aren’t typing while the fingers on your right hand are constantly being used (typing and mousing). Relieving some of the burden on these overworked fingers is worth giving the left hand an occasional extra job holding modifier keys.
If you insist on using a two-button mouse, I contend it’d be better for your hands if you moused left-handed occasionally.
Beeblrox,
if you are hinting that there is some sort of editorial conspiracy at work here to drum up traffic by writing Microsoft heavy story I can assure you that is not the case. While I, and all of us at Apple Matters, welcome the fact that readers are obviously engaged with these stories our primary goal is quality, not traffic.
I think it is because we try to take a serious look at Apple, which, inevitably, means looking seriously at Microsoft too. But it is indicative of something within the Apple community that Microsoft-centric pieces are getting so much attention.
By the way, this post was written with a one-button mouse but a multi-button keyboard.
The open/save dialog is one of the great weak points on both systems, Windows and OSX. I always have trouble explaining to people that the folders and windows one sees in the finder are the same things that one sees in the open/save dialogs. The two views are just a bit too different and the dialogs are relatively awkward.
Windows seems to do a bit better, but my experience with naive Windows users and naive OSX (and MacOS) users is that they have no idea of how to create and organize folders. Naive Windows users put everything in whatever default location hitting return gets them after typing a name, just like naive Macintosh users.
Save dialogs give you no sense of finding a filing place. Open dialogs give little sense of navigation. I gather SpotLight tries make it easier to find things. If nothing else, if you remember the name you typed, or part of it, you don’t have to worry that much about where you saved it.
Maybe the answer is to copy Windows and make the open/save dialogs look almost the same as a Finder window, perhaps with some visual modifications so you can tell you are in a dialog. Maybe the answer is to push Spotlight and give up on filing things away completely.
kaleberg, none of that changes if they ship the Mac with a two button mouse. You still have the option of only using one of them. All of my mice have four buttons. I mostly use the LMB, but I often use the scroll wheel/MMB for browsing and of course the RMB when I need to. I NEVER use the fourth button, and it’s being there does nothing to change the way I work. It’s there if I ever decide to use it and I like that.
As for button creep, that’s a legit concern I suppose but the only app I’ve EVER used that actually required the MMB is Maya. And that’s after roughly 17 years using a GUI.
Let’s make the entirely reasonable assumption that the large majority of computer users (left-)click more than they right-/ctrl-click. By using a one-button mouse, the most repetitive action you do can be performed with a larger muscle group.
This is getting out of hand, no pun intended. I’ve seen people go to absurd lengths to defend Apple, but you’ve crossed over into silly-land.
Even if I conceded some marginal benefit to using the palm to press a button over using your finger (I can’t even believe I’m having to argue this), the benefit does NOT outweigh the downside of using both hands instead of a RMB. In terms of ergonomics, the benefit of using the palm over the finger is marginal. The benefit of using one hand over two is greater.
if you are hinting that there is some sort of editorial conspiracy at work here to drum up traffic by writing Microsoft heavy story I can assure you that is not the case.
Sorry, Hadley (awesome name, btw, is that British?), that was not my intent.
I was simply observing that traffic is a side benefit of controversy and that, to my amusement and curiousity, the fastest way to be controversial on a Mac-centric site is to give credit in ANY WAY to Microsoft (it’s sometimes enough simply not to trash them).
Heck, I’ve raised a sh!tstorm before from simply suggesting that I liked XP and OSX about the same. It’s very telling that an otherwise inoccuous statement can cause a flame war.
Beeblebrox. You should try OS X Server for more powerful sharing control instead of the client OS that’s simple, easy and secure enough out of the box.
It’s the different philosophies of the deisgners. all the power you could ever want with the hope you have the knowledge to do it right versus limiting the power in such a way that you can do it relatively safely and quickly.
As for the suggestions in this article, I agree with none of them.
1) Why change a better solution?
2) Up to Application developers. Since the most common Apple applications, iTunes and iPhoto, are not truely document oriented applications (quick explanation you manipulate a database or representation of the file and not the file itself) a save toolbar button means nothing. The only program I use that takes a document centric approach, ecto, does have a “Save” button in the toolbar. Take that to mean whatever it does for you.
3) An Apple supplied multi-button mouse would be nice, but a OS that doesn’t explicitly depend on that function is nicer. I’m peeved when I see functions in programs that are only accesible with the context menu.
4) The OS should never try to outsmart the user. Hiding files is just confusing and not worth it.
5) Sorting Folders apart from Files is just odd and something I don’t get.
6) I don’t understand this “context sensitive help” thing. Mouse overs or something else?
THEM, thanks for the suggestion but OSX Server is $500. Sharepoints does what I need for free.
My point above was simply that the solution for doing this in OSX is way more complicated than it is in XP.
Right, it’s more complicated, however that doesn’t mean it is wrong. To get some features in XP that Apple includes in OS X client you need to get XP Professional, mainly encrypted file system, more or less FileVault, multi-processor support, and multi-language ability for the UI. So the game is played on both sides.
The TRUE ergonomic benefit of one-button over two is, the one-button mouse causes more variability in hand activity.
With a one button mouse you do become more reliant on key-combinations so there’s more moving the hand from mouse to keyboard which breaks up the routine and lessens the chance of RSI.
With a right-click option, which are more prevalent and function laden in Windows, you can sit on the mouse for ages without ever having to move your right hand to the keyboard.
That is the ergonomic disadvantage of a two-button mouse. You can become a “mouse slob”.
I just did a test with my kids’ one button mouse and I only use two fingers to click it - not my whole palm. On a two button mouse I use the same two fingers - one on the left button, one on the right… So for my experience, the whole of hand ergonomic argument doesn’t hold water.
Again, The true ergonomic benefit of one-button over two is, the one-button mouse causes more variability in hand activity.
So if you’re going to argue ergonomics, that’s the one you should use.
Oh, and, while we’re talking about ergonomics, does everyone has one of those MS Natural keyboards? I guess not, because they were developed by Microsoft.
So the game is played on both sides.
I never said it wasn’t. Of COURSE there are things that are more complicated in XP than OSX (although that doesn’t make them wrong
).
But the topic of the thread was about what OSX could learn from XP.